Compile 'em all
Nov 17, 01:38 AM
Hi,
According to me,Facebook application is very useful in the making of the i-phone application.It is very quit relevant to the i-phone application.
Wait, what?
According to me,Facebook application is very useful in the making of the i-phone application.It is very quit relevant to the i-phone application.
Wait, what?
Source
Oct 13, 09:24 PM
Sorry Nipsy, i know you weren't talking about Apple's speed in your posts and i meant to say that in my last post, but i'm too tired and must have missed it out somewhere in typing everything.
Again, more good replies from you.
I agree in some parts, but i also agree with MacCoaster.
I propose that we don't design chips for Apple, but let them know what we want. Sure, some Apple people may (and i'm not saying definately do), check up on a few forums to find out what their customers want, but until you hit apple with multiples of requests for what you want, you won't get anywhere by just sitting here and complaining about it (again, not directing this at you, Nipsy, but everyone who does complain).
Again, more good replies from you.
I agree in some parts, but i also agree with MacCoaster.
I propose that we don't design chips for Apple, but let them know what we want. Sure, some Apple people may (and i'm not saying definately do), check up on a few forums to find out what their customers want, but until you hit apple with multiples of requests for what you want, you won't get anywhere by just sitting here and complaining about it (again, not directing this at you, Nipsy, but everyone who does complain).
Alezan
Mar 12, 06:04 AM
Austrian Store is down as well.
Take note, that Austria is NOT among those countries (US, UK, Germany,...) who are supposed to get iPad's on April 3rd.
That's quiet a good sign isn't it?
Take note, that Austria is NOT among those countries (US, UK, Germany,...) who are supposed to get iPad's on April 3rd.
That's quiet a good sign isn't it?
buffsldr
Oct 13, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by tfaz1
Well said. I have to agree with you.
Most friends and relatives bring up the clock speed and price. But when they see how the machine looks on my desk, when they step up to OS X and take it for a spin, they see why I could take a speed "loss" for all the luxury that Apple brings to the user experience.
Now, a lot of us rumor-heads are focused on bleeding-edge. And it kinda burns us that Intel/Athlon chips are closing in on 3GHz and we've just broken 1 gig. But we (rumor-heads) are the few, and PC marketing no longer seems to focus on speed. And I believe that Apple is slowly turing more heads out there.
And I have to agree with you.
Apple is a business. They have shareholders that hold them accountable for their performance. They goal for them is to maximize profitability. To achieve this goal, apple has a marketing department. I know very little about marketing, but what I do tells me that the four P's of marketing are place, price, promotion, and product. My understanding is that "place" pertains to where you want to position yourself in the market. Do you want to sell high end, mid or low end? You get the idea. It is totally possible to sell a low end product, have less market share and still be more profitable than a company that sells high end and has more market share.
Bottom line, Apple does not exist to outperform pc's. They exist to make their share holders money. The original question was who should we blame? I am not sure that there is a problem. As one consumer, I would love to see macs outperform pc's, but before I am willing to accept there is a problem that will affect apple's profitability I would like to see a business case explaining how apple can make more money by fixing these alleged "problems". But, I really dont care. I use apple because i like it. when apple stops meeting my computer needs, i can go somewhere else, or do without.
Edvinow,l you do raise some thought provoking questions and I apprecaite that. My point was that just because we want more, doesnt necessarily means that a company's strategy is flawed. After all, you are dissappointed with some of what apple does, and they got your money didn't they :)
Well said. I have to agree with you.
Most friends and relatives bring up the clock speed and price. But when they see how the machine looks on my desk, when they step up to OS X and take it for a spin, they see why I could take a speed "loss" for all the luxury that Apple brings to the user experience.
Now, a lot of us rumor-heads are focused on bleeding-edge. And it kinda burns us that Intel/Athlon chips are closing in on 3GHz and we've just broken 1 gig. But we (rumor-heads) are the few, and PC marketing no longer seems to focus on speed. And I believe that Apple is slowly turing more heads out there.
And I have to agree with you.
Apple is a business. They have shareholders that hold them accountable for their performance. They goal for them is to maximize profitability. To achieve this goal, apple has a marketing department. I know very little about marketing, but what I do tells me that the four P's of marketing are place, price, promotion, and product. My understanding is that "place" pertains to where you want to position yourself in the market. Do you want to sell high end, mid or low end? You get the idea. It is totally possible to sell a low end product, have less market share and still be more profitable than a company that sells high end and has more market share.
Bottom line, Apple does not exist to outperform pc's. They exist to make their share holders money. The original question was who should we blame? I am not sure that there is a problem. As one consumer, I would love to see macs outperform pc's, but before I am willing to accept there is a problem that will affect apple's profitability I would like to see a business case explaining how apple can make more money by fixing these alleged "problems". But, I really dont care. I use apple because i like it. when apple stops meeting my computer needs, i can go somewhere else, or do without.
Edvinow,l you do raise some thought provoking questions and I apprecaite that. My point was that just because we want more, doesnt necessarily means that a company's strategy is flawed. After all, you are dissappointed with some of what apple does, and they got your money didn't they :)
Derekasaurus
Aug 8, 02:28 PM
I don't like the Microsoft bashing either...it's just something that gets to me. Microsoft bashing is a waste of energy. Who cares what company did what first, as a consumer I don't care about originality. Just give me something that works. Whatever company can implement the idea the best to provide a benefit to ME, gets my business. Just shut up and innovate (like Apple has been doing), the products will speak for themselves.
I agree totally. If anything all the bashing makes Apple (and its fans) seem insecure. Just deliver the goods and let the marketshare speak for itself. (Plus the mightier-than-thou attitude alienates PC users and makes them think twice about joining "the cult".)
I agree totally. If anything all the bashing makes Apple (and its fans) seem insecure. Just deliver the goods and let the marketshare speak for itself. (Plus the mightier-than-thou attitude alienates PC users and makes them think twice about joining "the cult".)
Tec972
Nov 25, 11:43 AM
I sympathise with lots of your points, but this one doesn't necessarily stand up.
Cost of an external hard disk to back up my entire music library (if I had bought it all from iTunes): Approx �40
Cost of shelving to hold all my CD's: Approx �200
I understand what you are saying and already realized that, like I said, I would love for iTunes to be my one stop shop for music, because it's more convenient. But their pricing is off due to such low overhead, that I shouldn't be able to buy physical media more cheaply.
My argument is has more to do with them not keeping accounts that you can access your purchased stuff from. It is more of the fact that I don't want to back up stuff 2 or 3 times over because if it is lost I wouldn't be able to get it again. Hard drives do fail quite a bit. I know there are circumstance of apple letting people download all their stuff once, but it should be something they would offer anyway.
Most of my original post would pertain to buying something like the Beatles Box set on iTunes. I could buy it on iTunes for $150 in digital format or go to Amazon get the real box set for $130 encode it in better quality if I desired and either throw the box set away, give it away or sell it for lets say $80, if I didn't want it taking up space. So it cost me $50, and I have the same exact thing I would have gotten on iTunes for about one third the cost (depending on what I sold it for). If you still think that buying that set on iTunes is the better value then that's fine. To me it just doesn't compare.
I didn't really mean to write a rant opposed to trying to make people realize that iTunes is not a good deal in many cases and they should not be charging what they do, but people are so blinded, it makes me wonder.
Don't get me wrong, on few occasions I do buy music on iTunes but I still think it is a ripoff because it is an all digital purchase.
Cost of an external hard disk to back up my entire music library (if I had bought it all from iTunes): Approx �40
Cost of shelving to hold all my CD's: Approx �200
I understand what you are saying and already realized that, like I said, I would love for iTunes to be my one stop shop for music, because it's more convenient. But their pricing is off due to such low overhead, that I shouldn't be able to buy physical media more cheaply.
My argument is has more to do with them not keeping accounts that you can access your purchased stuff from. It is more of the fact that I don't want to back up stuff 2 or 3 times over because if it is lost I wouldn't be able to get it again. Hard drives do fail quite a bit. I know there are circumstance of apple letting people download all their stuff once, but it should be something they would offer anyway.
Most of my original post would pertain to buying something like the Beatles Box set on iTunes. I could buy it on iTunes for $150 in digital format or go to Amazon get the real box set for $130 encode it in better quality if I desired and either throw the box set away, give it away or sell it for lets say $80, if I didn't want it taking up space. So it cost me $50, and I have the same exact thing I would have gotten on iTunes for about one third the cost (depending on what I sold it for). If you still think that buying that set on iTunes is the better value then that's fine. To me it just doesn't compare.
I didn't really mean to write a rant opposed to trying to make people realize that iTunes is not a good deal in many cases and they should not be charging what they do, but people are so blinded, it makes me wonder.
Don't get me wrong, on few occasions I do buy music on iTunes but I still think it is a ripoff because it is an all digital purchase.
appleguy123
May 4, 10:28 PM
I'm not too sure how 3d screens work, but don't they devote half of the pixels to the right eye, and half to the left? If so, could you turn 3D off and have a double resolution retina display?
Apple OC
Mar 10, 11:17 PM
You're in Canada? And you don't support the United States cutting back? Would you like anything else? May I bring you a comfy pillow to prop your feet upon, and a little something from Tim Horton's?
My point was, how 'bout if the USA reduces its military spending to $1 less than the Canadian military budget? Then the Canucks are the badasses, and we Yanks fall in line with the rest of the world. Everybody's happy.
you can judge me all you want ... my family is both Canadian and American.
I live on both sides of the border.
sorry if I do not support everyone's Anti-American Military views.
Cutting the Military is not for me ... Even though I would have to pay higher taxes, I'd rather scrap all these Government Casinos and Government Bookies we have up in Canada than reduce even one dollar in Military spending.
My point was, how 'bout if the USA reduces its military spending to $1 less than the Canadian military budget? Then the Canucks are the badasses, and we Yanks fall in line with the rest of the world. Everybody's happy.
you can judge me all you want ... my family is both Canadian and American.
I live on both sides of the border.
sorry if I do not support everyone's Anti-American Military views.
Cutting the Military is not for me ... Even though I would have to pay higher taxes, I'd rather scrap all these Government Casinos and Government Bookies we have up in Canada than reduce even one dollar in Military spending.
yergnov
Mar 25, 02:18 PM
It's not that Apple isn't capable of coming up with a version of iOS that would run well on the 3G hardware. Of course they could if they wanted to. What it comes down to is Apple having to draw a line in the sand and phase out support at some point. They can't keep spending money to develop for it forever. The 3G is nearly 3 years old. I think it has served it's purpose well, and now it's time to let it retire in peace. It's worked a long time and is tired.
Personally I am surprised anyone is holding on to older phones like that. There are such good deals to be found in selling old hardware that will allow you to upgrade every year if you want with little or no expense to do so. When the 3Gs came out, I sold my original iPhone online for $160, so the upgrade only cost me $40 plus tax. It was well worth it. And when iPhone 5 drops this summer, I will do the same thing. Not too shabby if you ask me.
I totally agree. However, the 4.x was sold as a viable update to my phone, and my older iPod Touch was upgraded automatically. Had I known it would have rendered them quite useless, I would have not agreed to the upgrade. Also, there is no way (that I can tell) to downgrade to a previous IOS (I'm not overly geeky). I am not asking for on-going support, rather that the phone that I paid for works for its lifetime. It is Apple's fault for not providing a reasonable explanation of what the consequences would be or providing an alternative to that IOS.
Personally I am surprised anyone is holding on to older phones like that. There are such good deals to be found in selling old hardware that will allow you to upgrade every year if you want with little or no expense to do so. When the 3Gs came out, I sold my original iPhone online for $160, so the upgrade only cost me $40 plus tax. It was well worth it. And when iPhone 5 drops this summer, I will do the same thing. Not too shabby if you ask me.
I totally agree. However, the 4.x was sold as a viable update to my phone, and my older iPod Touch was upgraded automatically. Had I known it would have rendered them quite useless, I would have not agreed to the upgrade. Also, there is no way (that I can tell) to downgrade to a previous IOS (I'm not overly geeky). I am not asking for on-going support, rather that the phone that I paid for works for its lifetime. It is Apple's fault for not providing a reasonable explanation of what the consequences would be or providing an alternative to that IOS.
uruseiranma
Apr 17, 02:32 PM
Figured it sounded too good to be true.
I checked with the Best Buy in my neighborhood, and I'm #3 on the list of iPad2 reserves for the 32gb/Wifi-only. Figured if I didn't receive a call from them today, they didn't get jack.
The thing that's just bugging me is I've spent 3 weeks trying to sell my 16gb ipad 2 AT&T model on eBay, and I still can't sell this turkey in the US! This must be some cosmic joke that is telling me, 'Hahaha! You paid more for your 32gb iPad2...you're never going to be able to make enough extra to pay off your guilt!!"
I checked with the Best Buy in my neighborhood, and I'm #3 on the list of iPad2 reserves for the 32gb/Wifi-only. Figured if I didn't receive a call from them today, they didn't get jack.
The thing that's just bugging me is I've spent 3 weeks trying to sell my 16gb ipad 2 AT&T model on eBay, and I still can't sell this turkey in the US! This must be some cosmic joke that is telling me, 'Hahaha! You paid more for your 32gb iPad2...you're never going to be able to make enough extra to pay off your guilt!!"
Jweate
Oct 10, 11:05 AM
Here's my setup as of today! Sorry about the image quality, took the photo with my iPhone as my brother has stole my camera for the weekend. I'll post a better quality image when I get it back.
http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq260/JAMiUs/IMG_0033.jpg
The Xbox and Win7 PC are for Gaming and Media and my MacBook is for work!
http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq260/JAMiUs/IMG_0033.jpg
The Xbox and Win7 PC are for Gaming and Media and my MacBook is for work!
mdelvecchio
Mar 29, 03:19 PM
As for the voice command thing - I don't really care. It's not like it takes that long to press an icon, although it might help some in the cold wiinter when I have gloves on.
it takes many taps to dial an odd number you dont use often.
also, if this rumor is true, it would be for more than just dialing, as that is current tech.
it takes many taps to dial an odd number you dont use often.
also, if this rumor is true, it would be for more than just dialing, as that is current tech.
FoxDavis
Mar 12, 09:01 PM
If it's true, looks like I'll be more broke then I was this morning by a lot...hehe. I guess that's why we work hard and play hard. Plus you can't take it with you so you might as well play with new Mac stuff!
Month of March;
iPad 64 gig + 3G
MBP high-end 15"
= lots of money in one month....haha
Month of March;
iPad 64 gig + 3G
MBP high-end 15"
= lots of money in one month....haha
kugino
Aug 18, 12:20 PM
And apparently now they admit that it was bull-****.
http://www.tuaw.com/2006/08/18/secureworks-admits-to-falsifying-macbook-wireless-hack/
;)
yeah, using a third-party card AND driver software. stuff that 99.9% of macbook owners would never use anyway...if their goal was to show THAT a macbook could be hacked, they did show it. but they did not show that a macbook being used in a normal way using macbook drivers and hardware can be hacked. pretty piss-poor, IMO.
http://www.tuaw.com/2006/08/18/secureworks-admits-to-falsifying-macbook-wireless-hack/
;)
yeah, using a third-party card AND driver software. stuff that 99.9% of macbook owners would never use anyway...if their goal was to show THAT a macbook could be hacked, they did show it. but they did not show that a macbook being used in a normal way using macbook drivers and hardware can be hacked. pretty piss-poor, IMO.
citizenzen
Mar 11, 11:59 AM
"The first step on the long road (道) to recovery is to recognize that you have a problem."
Well, I certainly have a "problem" with the notion that a publicly funded military needs to be maintained in order to protect privately owned enterprises, who by their own free will have set up operations in foreign countries, often at the expense of American jobs.
Well, I certainly have a "problem" with the notion that a publicly funded military needs to be maintained in order to protect privately owned enterprises, who by their own free will have set up operations in foreign countries, often at the expense of American jobs.
MarcBook
May 5, 02:09 PM
I hate stereoscopic 3D. OK, it's quite fun at the cinema with your friends on a night out, but it's far from perfect. I really can't see Apple implementing the technology in any of their products. It's not polished enough for them, not good enough for the 'Apple experience'. Like AMOLED (as it currently stands), Apple will probably leave it to the other guys to play around with, waiting for either something better or the technology to mature. In this case, however, I think stereoscopic 3D is a dead end.
xxBURT0Nxx
May 5, 01:20 AM
I replied with "so you never charge" to say that even with wireless syncing one will have to charge iDevice at some point (matter of days if it's an iPhone, maybe a week if it's an iPod - both in use not just on a shelf). Why drain battery by syncing when you can charge batter while syncing and with wireless sync that can be done by induction charging which is slow and charger is costly ergo makes little sense. I'm all for wireless sync in addition to current wired method though. One more option is good.
OP was hoping to be freed from being tied to one iTunes, this has nothing to do with when you charge your device.. of course it still has to be charged.
I'll quote what I said again for you....
so i can sync over wifi, which is going to be slow as hell, and i still have to keep my device on a charging pad or in a dock? Why wouldn't i just plug it into the damn computer to speed up the process?
wireless charging/sync is stupid, time consuming, battery wasting, gimmick.
OP was hoping to be freed from being tied to one iTunes, this has nothing to do with when you charge your device.. of course it still has to be charged.
I'll quote what I said again for you....
so i can sync over wifi, which is going to be slow as hell, and i still have to keep my device on a charging pad or in a dock? Why wouldn't i just plug it into the damn computer to speed up the process?
wireless charging/sync is stupid, time consuming, battery wasting, gimmick.
thworple
Aug 24, 02:38 PM
Thanks to all you guys who have put up the relevant info. Couldn't log onto the aforementioned Apple support site, so you've been very helpful.
Fortunately I haven't been affected, but I do offer the best of luck to those that are. Not in the sense that you might catch fire, just in the waiting game sense!;)
Fortunately I haven't been affected, but I do offer the best of luck to those that are. Not in the sense that you might catch fire, just in the waiting game sense!;)
Varigon
Oct 26, 06:48 AM
2008 iMac 20" with the following specs:
Intel Core 2 Duo @ 2.66GHz, 4GB RAM @ 800MHz, 500GB @ 7200 RPM, ATI Radeon HD2600 @256MB
Harman/Kardon Soundsticks II
Logitech MX Revolution
Laptop - MacBook Pro 13" with the following specs:
Intel Core 2 Duo @ 2.4GHz, 4GB RAM @ 1066MHz, 250GB @ 5400RPM, Nvidia Geforce 320m
As you can see the Apple keyboard is a bit broken... I think I'm gonna replace it with Logitech diNovo Mac Edition.
I also have an iPhone 4 (32GB)
I used to have a 2nd monitor connected to the iMac (Dell 2007WFP, very nice monitor), but now I have connected the iMac to my 32" Samsung (running Plex) and the cable under the iMac is a mini-toslink connected to my Logitech Z5500. Behind the iMac I have a Western Digital MyBook Studio Edition @ 1TB
Things I want for my setup right now is a new desk, Just Mobile's Alupad and their Xtand for MacBook Pro. Oh, and a new keyboard (as mentioned above)...
Next year I'm planning to buy the 2nd generation iPad and when I get a job I'll start saving for either a 27" iMac or a Mac Pro + Dell U2711 (oh well, that's the dream... :rolleyes:)
Intel Core 2 Duo @ 2.66GHz, 4GB RAM @ 800MHz, 500GB @ 7200 RPM, ATI Radeon HD2600 @256MB
Harman/Kardon Soundsticks II
Logitech MX Revolution
Laptop - MacBook Pro 13" with the following specs:
Intel Core 2 Duo @ 2.4GHz, 4GB RAM @ 1066MHz, 250GB @ 5400RPM, Nvidia Geforce 320m
As you can see the Apple keyboard is a bit broken... I think I'm gonna replace it with Logitech diNovo Mac Edition.
I also have an iPhone 4 (32GB)
I used to have a 2nd monitor connected to the iMac (Dell 2007WFP, very nice monitor), but now I have connected the iMac to my 32" Samsung (running Plex) and the cable under the iMac is a mini-toslink connected to my Logitech Z5500. Behind the iMac I have a Western Digital MyBook Studio Edition @ 1TB
Things I want for my setup right now is a new desk, Just Mobile's Alupad and their Xtand for MacBook Pro. Oh, and a new keyboard (as mentioned above)...
Next year I'm planning to buy the 2nd generation iPad and when I get a job I'll start saving for either a 27" iMac or a Mac Pro + Dell U2711 (oh well, that's the dream... :rolleyes:)
Thomas Veil
Mar 10, 09:04 PM
I froze spending on a lot of things, made relatively minor cuts to others and actually raised worthy stuff like veterans' benefits and clean energy research.
Increased taxes moderately on those making $100,000-$1,000,000, but went whole hog on those making $1,000,000+. Returned the estate tax to 2001 levels (but wished I had the option to go a lot higher than that). Did not add a VAT tax.
I did not lower defense spending as much as some of you. I went from $600b down to $400b.
Removed the contribution limit on SS, but did not change benefits.
All in all, my cutting was pretty damn conservative compared to what the tea stainers are screaming about. And I still came out with this:
http://forums.macrumors.com/picture.php?albumid=54&pictureid=608
Oh Christ, he's back.
Republicans rejoice. The stone has been removed from the cave entrance.:p
By the way, I'm shocked, shocked! at your signature.
Increased taxes moderately on those making $100,000-$1,000,000, but went whole hog on those making $1,000,000+. Returned the estate tax to 2001 levels (but wished I had the option to go a lot higher than that). Did not add a VAT tax.
I did not lower defense spending as much as some of you. I went from $600b down to $400b.
Removed the contribution limit on SS, but did not change benefits.
All in all, my cutting was pretty damn conservative compared to what the tea stainers are screaming about. And I still came out with this:
http://forums.macrumors.com/picture.php?albumid=54&pictureid=608
Oh Christ, he's back.
Republicans rejoice. The stone has been removed from the cave entrance.:p
By the way, I'm shocked, shocked! at your signature.
Philberttheduck
Sep 4, 05:17 PM
I don't believe this movie thing will be of great resolution. Chances are it'll be no worse than 480p. I mean, the TV shows iTunes sells aren't even HD (this is why I use an alternative source) and there's a huge difference between the HD version I get and iTunes'. I hope for the 10+ bucks they're charging us, the resolution gets to be 720p; 1080p would be ridiculous (bad or good).
iPod nano is good but I would like for the full-screen iPod. I got my eyes set on the Meizu M6 Miniplayer. I'm just hoping they update the Meizu to 8GB, etc (chances are unlikely considering it's not even sold to North America) because that price and sturdiness (couple that with the beautiful 2.4inch screen) and you got a competitive Nano-Killer.
No-TOUCH iPOD THIS TUESDAY POR FAVOR!
iPod nano is good but I would like for the full-screen iPod. I got my eyes set on the Meizu M6 Miniplayer. I'm just hoping they update the Meizu to 8GB, etc (chances are unlikely considering it's not even sold to North America) because that price and sturdiness (couple that with the beautiful 2.4inch screen) and you got a competitive Nano-Killer.
No-TOUCH iPOD THIS TUESDAY POR FAVOR!
sjo
Mar 29, 09:04 AM
The report notes that Apple waited to adopt 3G technology until is had significantly matured
BS. 3G was fully matured at the time of release of the first Iphone. It had been commercially adopted for over 5 years at that point in time.
BS. 3G was fully matured at the time of release of the first Iphone. It had been commercially adopted for over 5 years at that point in time.
MikeAtari
Nov 27, 03:05 PM
Now that would be expensive!!!
I like the idea of The Beatles catalog being available on iTunes, but for me, I'd be most interested in getting CD's of the remastered music so I can rip at my preferred bit rate. :)
Is this all part of Paul's plan to stay solvent through his divorce? :rolleyes:
BREAKEVEN: is 25 MILLIONS TRACKS DOWNLOADED!!!
OUCH!
The Beatles are OLD and HISTORY.
They will NEVER break even on this contract.
They'd BETTER sell an Beatles IPOD, maybe 10 different ones.
They will only breakeven on hardware.
I like the idea of The Beatles catalog being available on iTunes, but for me, I'd be most interested in getting CD's of the remastered music so I can rip at my preferred bit rate. :)
Is this all part of Paul's plan to stay solvent through his divorce? :rolleyes:
BREAKEVEN: is 25 MILLIONS TRACKS DOWNLOADED!!!
OUCH!
The Beatles are OLD and HISTORY.
They will NEVER break even on this contract.
They'd BETTER sell an Beatles IPOD, maybe 10 different ones.
They will only breakeven on hardware.
flopticalcube
Apr 12, 12:50 PM
Skunk and Sydde present facts. You can only present a faith-based belief which is based on assumptions, one of which is that the bible is divinely inspired. Clearly, this assumption can never be proven particularly to someone who does not believe that there is anything "divine" to begin with let alone that a particular set of works is the reference given by such. Assumptions based on assumptions is just too hard to swallow.
